so these federal lending programs are designed to make college education more affordable. basically what's happening is creating a pile of debt. >> that's right. so many students are believing the lie that you can't be a student without a student loan. so they are just assuming student loans are are the only way to go to college. >> seems obvious what the down sides would be but let's put them up on the screen how are people winding up with so much debt? are there things they don't realize going into it. >> i think so. an 18-year-old doesn't con piewt that they may graduate with $27,000 in debt. that's just. >> or more. >> that's just the average. >> and more. the average is coming out to $27,000. i don't think an 18-year-old really realizes how much money that actually is. which brings us to point 2. i feel like if i talk to the 21-year-old version of them they always say i wish i had known this before i went to college. and so i always tell high school seniors you guys have you have got to look at the alternatives. >> let's talk about some of the alternatives. what do yo